Monday, 6 December 2010

Two questions for believers

In thinking about morality and how religion tries so very hard to claim it as a 'god-given' thing, I have two questions for believers on the subject (for the Abrahamic religions specifically). Not all believers may hold the beliefs I refer to in them, but I expect the majority do in some form. An additional question might be "if you don't believe these things, why not?". But I digress:

1) If morality in humans is something that has been given to us by your deity and is a reflection of it's 'will', or a natural extension of the deity (i.e. 'god-given' morality is innate in all of us), why do some of your deities actions in your holy books seem to us to be utterly immoral?

2) As there is no reason why an atheist could not live as moral, or possibly a more moral life than a believer, why does your deity additionally require belief in it's existence to grant people entry into heaven, and how is that moral?

I do wonder how these things are squared in the minds of believers.


  1. 2) As there is no reason why an atheist could not live as moral, or possibly a more moral life than a believer, why does your deity additionally require belief in it's existence to grant people entry into heaven, and how is that moral?
    Hello Neil i will reply two your second question.
    God does not require belief in His existence for entry into heaven. Many people believe in God yet reject His offer of salvation, which is through Christ (The Messiah).Redemption became necessary when sin entered the human sphere and seperated man from God. When Adam committed that first act of disobedience, sin entered and separated them(humanity) from God. From that point on the means of bridging the seperation of man from God was the means of blood. This bridging of the gap is called redemption. In the history of God's dealing with His people, the means of redemption was always by blood.
    The redemptive element of blood begins to come into the theme of scripture at the same time that sin does, for until sin came, no blood was necessary. In scripture (Old testament) as soon as man is expelled from the Garden of Eden: "Jehovah God made for Adam and for his wife coats of skins, and clothed them"(Genesis 3:21)
    The skins were animal skins. the nakedness, that the element of sin now revealed, needed to be covered. But the covering required the death of several animals and so, for the first time in history, blood was shed. this provides the root meaning of the Hebrew word for atonement, which is (a covering).
    The necessity of blood was a lesson soon learned by the sons of the first human couple. The time came for both Abel and Cain to bring their sacrifices before God. cain offered for sacrifice the fruit of his labors in the field. the offering was vegetable, and it was bloodless. Abel brought a blood offering taken from his flock. When God passed judgment on the two types of offferings, that of Cain was rejected and that of Abel was accepted. So a lesson was taught: One cannot approach God by whatever means one chooses> It is man who sinned and offended the Holy God; it is God who must do the forgiving. Therefore, it is not for man to choose the means of forgiveness but for God, and God has chosen the means to be blood. Cain had chosen to approach God in his own way, but he was rejected. Abel chose the way God demanded, and was accepted.

  2. second part of my answer.
    The principle stood throughout the remainder of Old Testament history, but it was a not a permanent solution for the seperation of man from God because of sin. In the Old Testement God promises a permanent solution .Although God made the promise to come and pay the penalty for sin, which is spiritual death (romans 6:23) deity is subject neither to spiritual nor physical death. As eternal God, He cannot die; as immutable God, He cannot change. How, then, can this conflict ever be resolved? How can mankind be brought back to God? The answer: Without compromise to His deity God must take on true flesh and blood. Indeed, God the Son ( Jesus Christ ) agreed to fulfill the Father's plan by clothing Himself with a human body(which was accomplished by the virgin birth, the humanity came from the woman and the deity came from the impreganition of the virgin by the Holy Sprit) (Phil. 2:5-8 ; Heb. 2:9-14).
    There are four reasons why Jesus Christ became true humanity.
    The 1st reason was to be Savior and go to the cross and die (the final blood sacrifice).
    2nd reason, Jesus Christ was to be the mediator. Before man can have a relationship with God, he needs a go-between who is equal with both the Godhead and with man. The Mediator, then must be God and man in one person (1Tim. 2: 5-6).
    3rd reason , Jesus was to become a priest. Since man is a sinner, he requires an acceptable priest to represent him before God and that priest must himself be a man. Jesus Christ fulfilled this function and became the "great high priest" ( Heb. 4: 14 ).
    4th reason, Jesus Christ is to reign as the Son of David ( luke 1: 31-33 ).
    Christ holds three offices as prophet, priest, and king. So it is not belief in God that gets a person into Heaven. It is the accepting of Christ sacrifice (death on the cross for your sins). That opens the door to Heaven for a person on earth. Ephesians 2:8. For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9. it is not from works, so that no one can boast. Acts 13:38. "Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39. Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses. Romans 10:8. But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9. That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. 12. For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13. for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

  3. posted by d taylor